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Thread: Scouting on versus scouting off discussion

  1. #1
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    Scouting on versus scouting off discussion

    This is a thread to contain the scouting-on versus scouting-off discussion.

    When USB was launching, we chose scouting-on without voting on it, which was a fine call in my opinion. As we’ve learned more about USB since then, I think it’s time to take the temperature of the league on which we prefer *for now.*

    I’ll take this all into consideration and then make a recommendation on next steps.

    Feel free to quote your own post from elsewhere if it saves you time.

  2. #2
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    Re: Scouting on versus scouting off discussion

    My personal opinion is roughly this:

    Quote Originally Posted by jellyinsd View Post
    I really think we should turn scouting off in this era of Brian yoloing adjustments to numbers that he forgot to double-check 15 years ago.
    Quote Originally Posted by jellyinsd View Post
    I also will enjoy it at some point, but I think it’s not ready for prime time and actually impacts our ability to troubleshoot current functionality of the sim, including aging, etc. I think we should swap over ASAP.
    Or this is how I said it in some offline discussions:

    My opinion is that it should be off now until wild swings to sim and aging have settled down and been validated, because flying blind with unproven changes makes us useless in helping to fix things. Is development broken? How would I know? Is the sim working as intended? How would I know?

    I should add that I actually look forward to moving back to a "scouting-on" aka "partial/zero scouting" world once some of these changes are validated and settled. I like the uncertainty. It just needs to be within a system we trust, and we don't have that yet.

    That’s the best version of copy pasting I can do right now.
    IBA '00, '09, '15, '16, '17, '23, '25, '26, '35, ret. L/B '14, '16, '17, '22, '25, ret., '83, '84, '87, '89, '94, '99, ret. KSTW '87, '89, ret. HOFm '92, '93, '82, ret. Blitz '12, '15, ret. LoL '98, '02, ret., '04. TCL '18, '20, '21, '41, '47, '48, '84, '85, '87, '89, '91, '93, '19, '21. FOB '41, '43, ret. RDML '65, '66, ret.
    Quote Originally Posted by ZubaZ View Post
    60 Jelly = godless Better than you

  3. #3
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    Re: Scouting on versus scouting off discussion

    I made the initial decision to keep scouting on, with input from the other admins (jelly, jar, pimp, and luke). It was a decision I made, so I want to explain the thought process at that time.

    First and foremost we want TCL to be challenging. This league is the cream of the crop in CSFBL, every time I look at the owner list, I am impressed. It is intended to not be a set and coast league.
    With the understanding that CSFBL Classic was going to replicate...well the classic CSFBL we all knew...and that the changes to ratings (normalization) were going to be completely validated and understood what the impacts were, we decided to keep scouting on to help create some of that challenging environment. It made sense in a environment where we trusted the output of the system (sim).

    The reality of what happened was that not everything was fully validated, and then subsequent "tweaks" have had to be made. Numerous variables were all changed at once.

    With scouting being on (scouted ratings), it's adding an additional variable that's unnecessary, imo, while changes are being made to dev and dec arcs, etc.

    If we have trust in the system we cant see, then we have scouting on (create uncertainty). At this time, I think the game is creating enough uncertainty on it's own. haha.

    From other thread:

    Quote Originally Posted by makila
    Quote Originally Posted by rentforfree2790 View Post
    I think I actually really like potentials being unreliable, the more we play with it. I'm enjoying that aspect. Actuals being unreliable, but getting more reliable as a player plays, but also sometimes still never being reliable...that is not fun for me. Matthew McNabb having 97 SL 95 RA in reality but never showing up at that level is scary. I thought it might be fun to throw players in and out of lineups to see if you have a hidden gem but so far that hasn't really panned out in an enjoyable way. Maybe I should have played in more of the "letter grades for draft, numbers after draft" leagues.
    This is a big thing for me right now.

    I completely understand the concept of....you need to give your players playing time to fully evaluate their skills. That's completely fair and realistic.

    What isn't realistic though, is that I have to experiment with my active roster and "real" games. MLB clubs are not putting players on their 26 man mlb roster (or whatever the # is right now) who have never seen a pitch at any level. Yet that is what we are now being forced to do with the muddied scouting. I can also admit, I always tried to fund full scouting, so I realize I was skirting scouting by seeing full ratings. So I guess...my long way of saying...I'm starting to come around that having that set up makes the most sense, for player evaluation. Scouting is how we evaluate players since we have no lower levels to see how they perform. I can understand making a top 5 pick, playing the guy in the minors, he sucks, and i picked a bust. Well ****, oh well. Instead we're the scenario of having to throw player into real games just to figure out if they can hit lefties or not, frankly sucks and isn't real. That happens in hs, college, minors.

    If we had a way to evaluate players via games simulated at a minor league level, I think a lot of this makes more sense.
    Last edited by makila; September 4, 2022 at 02:51 PM.

  4. #4
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    Re: Scouting on versus scouting off discussion

    While I agree with all of the above, I think I prefer playing blind to having perfect information. The long-term answer is still minor league stats, and I don't mind flipping coins until that arrives.

  5. #5

    Re: Scouting on versus scouting off discussion

    Pigge would have enjoyed Dynasty before the update
    Are you a serious CSFBL competitor?
    Join the Dynasty Waiting List

    *Patiently waiting for No Scouting to return to CSFBL since June 12, 2022.

  6. #6
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    Re: Scouting on versus scouting off discussion

    I’m fine with the direction of the masses. I’m ok with mak/jelly and oddly agree with pigge as well. I hate everyone equally

  7. #7

    Re: Scouting on versus scouting off discussion

    Quote Originally Posted by Pigge View Post
    While I agree with all of the above, I think I prefer playing blind to having perfect information. The long-term answer is still minor league stats, and I don't mind flipping coins until that arrives.
    Seconded

  8. #8
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    Re: Scouting on versus scouting off discussion

    Quote Originally Posted by andujar View Post
    I’m fine with the direction of the masses. I’m ok with mak/jelly and oddly agree with pigge as well. I hate everyone equally
    Seconded
    PM to add username to Redraft 4.1 waiting list. Seasons 2.3 and 3.1 tracking close together now and will be backfilled before next 8 start new 4.1 season. Great practice before TOC2.

  9. #9

    Re: Scouting on versus scouting off discussion

    just one thing to keep in mind - the scouting system (and development system too, for that matter) is meant to function when every player is on a level playing field. Right now, basically every player over 25ish has been around long enough that we can know/remember their real potentials, and they developed under the old system as well. If we undo the scouting changes, it pushes back that equilibrium point again - if we ever decide to undo our undo and go back to unreliable scouting.

  10. #10
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    Re: Scouting on versus scouting off discussion

    I wish we didn’t have to.
    IBA '00, '09, '15, '16, '17, '23, '25, '26, '35, ret. L/B '14, '16, '17, '22, '25, ret., '83, '84, '87, '89, '94, '99, ret. KSTW '87, '89, ret. HOFm '92, '93, '82, ret. Blitz '12, '15, ret. LoL '98, '02, ret., '04. TCL '18, '20, '21, '41, '47, '48, '84, '85, '87, '89, '91, '93, '19, '21. FOB '41, '43, ret. RDML '65, '66, ret.
    Quote Originally Posted by ZubaZ View Post
    60 Jelly = godless Better than you

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