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Thread: MLB Showdown League Record Book

  1. #11
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    Nice work. Thanks for keeping it going.
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  2. #12
    Updated. Everything should be up to date. Through 1991 World Series. Includes WS MVP and POY awards for 1991.
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  3. #13
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    Hey John,

    Clark, George won 26 games in 1990. This was both the single season record and should be added to the 20 game winners. Yes the wins were split between two teams, but it is still 26 wins in one season by one pitcher.
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  4. #14
    Quote Originally Posted by 2XS View Post
    Hey John,

    Clark, George won 26 games in 1990. This was both the single season record and should be added to the 20 game winners. Yes the wins were split between two teams, but it is still 26 wins in one season by one pitcher.
    2XS,

    While Clark did win 26 combined games, I don't believe he can be considered the record holder since he pitched in two different divisions. The example I looked at was from the real MLB record book. In 1990, Willie McGee of the Cardinals won the batting title in the NL but finished the season with OAK. Once McGee left the NL his batting ave was frozen. I see it the same way with Clark. Once he left the Ernie Harwell division his win total was frozen at 12. And he started new with the Cardinals. Now I think it may be a different story if he was traded within the division or to the Harry Caray. I say the Caray division because it's like the Harwell/Caray division is the NL and the Buck/Uecker is the AL. But I'm sorry, that is how I see it. I would like to hear what other league members feel about it. If the league feels strongly that he should be named the record holder I will go along with it.
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  5. #15
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    Quote Originally Posted by john_miku View Post
    2XS,

    While Clark did win 26 combined games, I don't believe he can be considered the record holder since he pitched in two different divisions. The example I looked at was from the real MLB record book. In 1990, Willie McGee of the Cardinals won the batting title in the NL but finished the season with OAK. Once McGee left the NL his batting ave was frozen. I see it the same way with Clark. Once he left the Ernie Harwell division his win total was frozen at 12. And he started new with the Cardinals. Now I think it may be a different story if he was traded within the division or to the Harry Caray. I say the Caray division because it's like the Harwell/Caray division is the NL and the Buck/Uecker is the AL. But I'm sorry, that is how I see it. I would like to hear what other league members feel about it. If the league feels strongly that he should be named the record holder I will go along with it.
    The difference there is that Major League Baseball determines batting champs etc, by League, but accumulated stats still count towards single season records. I can't think of an instance where this actually came into play, mainly because record setters are rarely traded midseason.

    One thing I remember that could show some precedence is Jimmy Rollins hit streak a couple of years back. It carried over from one season to the next, it wouldn't have mattered whether he was playing in Philly the next season or not. See he wouldn't have been the wins champion for either the Scully or Kalas conferences, but he was for the league. That is the way it works in the real majors. I know it has happened before, and I think it was stolen bases, where a guy was traded one season but won the major league stolen base crown without winning the crown for either league he played in. I will see if I can find it.

    Major League baseball keeps track of single season leaders for the Majors as a whole and for each individual league.
    Last edited by 2XS; May 11, 2010 at 04:14 PM.
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  6. #16
    Quote Originally Posted by 2XS View Post
    The difference there is that Major League Baseball determines batting champs etc, by League, but accumulated stats still count towards single season records. I can't think of an instance where this actually came into play, mainly because record setters are rarely traded midseason.

    One thing I remember that could show some precedence is Jimmy Rollins hit streak a couple of years back. It carried over from one season to the next, it wouldn't have mattered whether he was playing in Philly the next season or not. See he wouldn't have been the wins champion for either the Scully or Kalas conferences, but he was for the league. That is the way it works in the real majors. I know it has happened before, and I think it was stolen bases, where a guy was traded one season but won the major league stolen base crown without winning the crown for either league he played in. I will see if I can find it.

    Major League baseball keeps track of single season leaders for the Majors as a whole and for each individual league.
    I really don't want to debate this, but I'll add my half-assed opinion anyway.

    SHORT VERSION: If I search for wins leaders for 1990 in Showdown Clark comes up twice for both teams he pitched for. His stats aren't combined.

    INTERMEDIATE QUESTION: When a player is traded, and wins an AS award, does it list his combined stats? If so I would combine Clark's, and list him.

    INSANE BABBLING OF AN OLD MAN SECTION:

    2XS is correct that MLB keeps a list of "MLB leaders by season". As far as I know, single season leaders are recorded by league, ie NL & AL wins, era, saves, etc. leaders are recognized at the end of the season, not the MLB leader. They keep the same list(s) for things like batting avg, and era, as well for all 3 (MLB, NL, AL).

    The most appropriate comparison would be to look at the Cy Young award. One is given out to each league, and only records (stats) for that league are supposed to come into consideration, ie (again) Some guy pitches half the yr in both leagues, and puts up 15 wins in each. He is only considered for the CY based on the 15 wins in the league he is being consider for the award in, not the 30 total (though in todays wacky world of Baseball Writers he'd probably win both CY's even though some other guy won 25 games in one of the leagues).

    There are no specific MLB rules that I am aware of that deal with combined records across both leagues.

    To address the hitting streak scenario brought up by 2XS. There currently are rules regarding what is a streak, and what is not. They can be found in the official scorekeepers section of the rulebook, and the recent change (I don't remember when. It wasn't an eternity ago) effectively now makes it an OBP streak instead of a hitting streak (if you BB every PA your streak is still alive. Dimaggio had to get a hit in all 56 games to keep his streak going.).

    Hitting streaks are also considered "single season records", and "career marks", just like single season, and career HR records. The official NL single season record hitting streak is 44 games, held by both Willie Keeler, and Pete Rose. Keeler holds the longest NL "career mark", and 2nd longest MLB hitting streak at 45 games (last game previous season, and first 44 games next season). Rollins would have had to start a new streak to break Dimaggio's single season record, but could have passed him on the career mark list if he had continued on.

    Clear difference between starting a new season at zero across the board, and accumulating career stats.

    I'm sure none of that was any help at all, but I was currently bored close to death.

  7. #17
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    If the question is "Who holds the record for most wins in a season?" the answer is George Clark with 26. If we separated our records by division then this would be an issue. But since we don't-- we just lump them all together-- this shouldn't be a problem. We don't need to overcomplicate this with technicalities.
    Last edited by jomby; May 12, 2010 at 10:12 AM.
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  8. #18
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    Let's get in the way back machine and go to 1997 the year the Mark McGuire went from Oakland to St. Louis. In Oakland he had 34 hrs and finished 9th then he finished the season at St Louis and had 24 hrs finishing 24th. You will not find any record book that shows where McGuire lead MLB in home runs that year with 58. It shows where Ken Griffey, Jr. lead the Al with 56 and Larry Walker lead the NL with 49.
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  9. #19
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    Quote Originally Posted by jomby View Post
    If the question is "Who holds the record for most wins in a season?" the answer is George Clark with 26. If we separated our records by division then this would be an issue. But since we don't-- we just lump them all together-- this shouldn't be a problem. We don't need to overcomplicate this with technicalities.
    This.

    We are not MLB, we do not use MLB rules, we do not have Stats, Inc keeping our stats. 26 wins was the most by any pitcher, that should be the record.

  10. #20
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    Quote Originally Posted by Trent View Post
    Let's get in the way back machine and go to 1997 the year the Mark McGuire went from Oakland to St. Louis. In Oakland he had 34 hrs and finished 9th then he finished the season at St Louis and had 24 hrs finishing 24th. You will not find any record book that shows where McGuire lead MLB in home runs that year with 58. It shows where Ken Griffey, Jr. lead the Al with 56 and Larry Walker lead the NL with 49.
    Yet, if the question is 'Who led MLB in homeruns that year?', the obvious answer is Mark McGuire.

    And to further that point, didn't McGuire get credit for breaking Maris' homerun record? Maris was AL, McGuire was NL. That record is(was) a single season record for MLB, not the AL or NL. Single season.
    Last edited by Hawkeye_V; May 12, 2010 at 06:49 PM.

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